The Last Guardian (aka Trico)


Author Reply
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
Well, there's no accounting for the taste of crazy Japs. That's what I call 'em.
#31 at 11:56:15 - 21/05/2009
mal
Flag
Posts:531
Comments:165
Thread Kills:40(8%)
AATG Pts:85
Star Rating
peej said:Watched the trailer again and all the tiny tiny little chaotic movements and animations that go into everything from its expressions to its random yawns, shudders and shakes. Just breathtaking.


Random? That's not random. Team Ico don't do random. That's just scripted to the hilt.

They do do chaotic very well though. Even though their algorithms glitch out from time to time, it's just amazing to think of each of those blades of fur being processed independently - but not like a shader effect, since it's all done at the polygon level, with elements able to interact with other elements.
#32 at 20:03:03 - 21/05/2009
mal
Flag
Posts:531
Comments:165
Thread Kills:40(8%)
AATG Pts:85
Star Rating
Tiger_Walts said:From wiki

Shadow of the Colossus's commercial reception was positive, with sales of 140,000 copies in its first week at retail in Japan, reaching number one in the charts. Almost 80% of the initial Japanese shipment was sold within two days. These figures compare favorably with Ico, which was well received by critics but failed to sell a significant number of copies. The game was placed on Sony's list of Greatest Hits titles on August 8, 2006.


Interesting. It's feasible therefore that the team made a profit on SotC, especially if they were as small as I think they were (until they started hiring for this game). Four years of dev salaries don't come cheap but something like a million in sales (at a guess) would help.

Lets hope Project Trico sells as well or even better, since it looks like they've spent a lot more on this game than either of the previous two.
#33 at 20:15:51 - 21/05/2009
peej
Flag
Posts:14637
Comments:4691
Thread Kills:462(3%)
AATG Pts:400
Star Rating
Gold Medal
mal said:
peej said:Watched the trailer again and all the tiny tiny little chaotic movements and animations that go into everything from its expressions to its random yawns, shudders and shakes. Just breathtaking.


Random? That's not random. Team Ico don't do random. That's just scripted to the hilt.

They do do chaotic very well though. Even though their algorithms glitch out from time to time, it's just amazing to think of each of those blades of fur being processed independently - but not like a shader effect, since it's all done at the polygon level, with elements able to interact with other elements.


On my animation course, we described "Random chaotic movement" as the holy grail of animation and up till that trailer it's not something I'd seen done convincingly. Heavily scripted or not, Team Ico's giant gay pussydragon does put across convincingly that twitchy animalness that other games haven't done at all well. I loved seeing that done convincingly.

To do "proper" random would take a lot more processing power than the PS3 could manage.
#34 at 21:55:13 - 21/05/2009
mal
Flag
Posts:531
Comments:165
Thread Kills:40(8%)
AATG Pts:85
Star Rating
Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but I assumed all that stuff was mocapped, and then scripted together.

That said, they proved themselves very good at transitioning between different animation sequences in SotC. SotC occasionally suffered from the trigger points being too obvious, but generally they were concealed pretty well. I don't see anything in that video to suggest it'll be any different in Trico.
#35 at 16:34:39 - 22/05/2009
peej
Flag
Posts:14637
Comments:4691
Thread Kills:462(3%)
AATG Pts:400
Star Rating
Gold Medal
Maybe, maybe not. But it's the job it does of convincing you that you're looking at a semi-wild beast. Not just a chunk of polygons.

Team Ico pay great attention to the small stuff, but not the insignificant small stuff (for instance, can you remember a damned thing about the backdrops and architectural details in the demo reel without looking back on it? Damned if I can!)

I was so transfixed by the creature I even completely missed the "Dora the Explorer" main character stylings till the second watch through.
#36 at 16:48:26 - 22/05/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
The main character's as cute as buttons.

See his face when he's crouching while the kitty-dragon's chomping on barrels? I was like EEEEEEEEEEEEEE ^__^
#37 at 16:52:44 - 22/05/2009
mal
Flag
Posts:531
Comments:165
Thread Kills:40(8%)
AATG Pts:85
Star Rating
Heh - the downs syndrome kid was one of the first thing I noticed (after the slightly dodgy rook animation). The architecture is like a cross between a city/castle like Ico, but with the slightly fuckedupness of SotC. But then I was looking for that sort of thing. When I'm actually playing it, I'm pretty sure Team Ico's misdirection will go its trick on me just as well as it always has done.
#38 at 16:53:21 - 22/05/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
Hmm, it must suck understanding graphics when trying to play a game :s
#39 at 16:54:51 - 22/05/2009
peej
Flag
Posts:14637
Comments:4691
Thread Kills:462(3%)
AATG Pts:400
Star Rating
Gold Medal
:)

I know I'll end up noticing the architecture in the final product. Ico's castle stands out as one of those videogame locations / worlds that you'd just love to visit a real-life version of.

Well, at least it would if it hadn't...well, you know :)
#40 at 16:57:10 - 22/05/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
OMG the ending scene where they are both resting.

I COULD CRY ^___^
#41 at 23:19:07 - 02/06/2009
nekotcha
Flag
Posts:1709
Comments:175
Thread Kills:38(2%)
AATG Pts:140
Star Rating
Silver Medal
Okay, controversial comment time - while I really like the trailer, and think the game is going to be fantastic, I have to confess that it doesn't give me the same sort of chills I got when watching the Shadow of the Colossus trailer.

I think the problem is that whilst the SotC trailer made it pretty quickly apparent how the game would play, I don't really get that sense with this. I can kinda see how some of it will play but there seems to be more elements to it than in SotC or Ico and I don't really know how well they will all merge into a whole. Also I don't find the music quite as compelling as the wonderful score of SotC.

Oh yeah, and they didn't announce a release date did they?
#42 at 23:49:54 - 02/06/2009
Hughes.
Flag
Posts:578
Comments:284
Thread Kills:28(5%)
AATG Pts:190
Star Rating
Gold Medal
It actually looked like a stealth game to me, sneaking past those guard types. It looks more like interior exploring than exterior. I guess chicken-cat is the eponymous Last Guardian.
#43 at 23:58:05 - 02/06/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
nekotcha said:Also I don't find the music quite as compelling as the wonderful score of SotC.

The music (which I love) is apparently from some film, and isn't original. Probably just for the trailer.

I noticed that in addition to upping the graphics, they changed back to the muted colours of past Ico games.

And of course they took that cute-as-buttons brown kid and replaced him with an Ico-as-buttons Ico-ish kid.

It looks like a cross between SotC and Ico, but leaning way more towards Ico. The giant armour enemies look interesting, and it looks like they take brains to beat.

But I wonder if there are aren't at least some proper colossi in this game. I mean, kitty-dragon must have a mother, right?! :)
#44 at 00:02:34 - 03/06/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
Hughes. said:It actually looked like a stealth game to me

Speaking of which, the scene where he's sneaking up on the sleeping kitty, that made me grin from here to waaaaay over there ^_____^
#45 at 00:03:41 - 03/06/2009
nekotcha
Flag
Posts:1709
Comments:175
Thread Kills:38(2%)
AATG Pts:140
Star Rating
Silver Medal
Wasn't at all sure about the sneaking past guards stuff. :/
#46 at 00:05:49 - 03/06/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
I'm gonna call it, now:

1. You're gonna kill the cat-eagle before the game ends and doing it will freakin' tear your heart out
2. That cat-eagle has a mommy
#47 at 22:33:38 - 04/06/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
IGN translated a Jap interview:

First, some naming issues. The game that eventually came to be known as The Last Guardian has been referred to by fans for some time now as "Trico," as it's the third project from the team that gained world attention with ICO on the PS2. You might also start hearing about the game by another name: "Hito Kui no Oowashi Toriko." That's the official Japanese name, as listed in Famitsu. It literally translates to "The Giant Man-Eating Eagle Toriko." More on the word "Toriko" in just a bit.

The "Oowashi," or "Giant Eagle," part of the title is what the development team uses to refer to the bird-like giant, Ueda told the magazine. Since Sony's American offices haven't shared official terminology for the creature, and since referring to it as "creature" is not particularly ideal, we're going to call it "eagle" for the time being.

According to Ueda, having a giant living creature was the first idea to emerge when creating the game. Ueda hoped to make the relationship between the player and Agro, the horse from Shadow of the Colossus, a bit more central to the game design this time.

As you might have guessed, players take control of the little boy from the trailer. The basic game design has the boy being young and thus weak and lacking abilities. The giant eagle makes up for these areas. As a young boy, the main character cannot rely on his strength to get past obstacles. However, perhaps he can overcome some trials by bringing the eagle with him.

The eagle itself has been drawing quite a bit of attention for its unique design. As detailed by Ueda, the current design was arrived at by treading closely the line between things looking natural and things looking unnatural. A big issue is that when recreating elements of dogs and cats, for instance, the unnatural will easily stand out amongst those who actually care for dogs and cats as pets. In addition to this, the eagle's designers had to take into consideration areas relating to game design.

Did you think to yourself "wow, that looks odd" when looking at the eagle? You're not alone. Ueda himself admits that it looks odd to him. But that's the aim. "It's important that it be 'a strange creature,'" explained Ueda. "We made sure and not make it too balanced."

Famitsu noted that the movements of the creature are extremely natural. Ueda explained this by recalling how he took care of not just dogs and cats in his childhood, but a variety of other animals as well, including monkeys and ducks. This gave him a sense for the motions of a variety of animals.

His childhood experience with animals also appears to have influenced his games in another way. You might have noticed how verbally quiet ICO and Shadow of the Colossus are. Ueda feels that this particular type of setting comes from the fact that animals don't speak.

While Ueda wouldn't reveal how the boy comes to meet the eagle, he was a bit (just a bit) more forthcoming with details on what you'll do in the game.

Interacting with the eagle appears to be one of the central aspects to the game. You're free to touch the eagle whenever you like. Its reactions will differ depending on where you touch it.

There's a care aspect for the eagle as well. You can feed the eagle and remove spears and arrows that have pierced it. Ueda feels that the development staff will have to take care to strike a balance and make sure the care aspects do not becoming a chore.

Growth and stage puzzles are major elements to the game. There are platforming aspects as well -- you can climb, grab things and crawl.

The flow of the game is a bit of a mystery right now. Asked if your movement through the stages will be seamless, Uedo said that it's seamless as far as there being no load times as you move about. However, there is an order to the locations that you visit.

The magazine asked Ueda if it's difficult to design stages when having to deal with characters of such vastly differing sizes. His response was that stage design is always difficult.

With Last Guardian, however, one area of the stage design involves how you go about getting the eagle to do stuff for you. Rather than simply saying you're giving orders to or working with the eagle, it's better to say that you're using the eagle's behavior as a living creature. The eagle may not simply follow your orders. But you can, perhaps, throw something that it likes in order to make it move.

Also something to keep in mind as you work through the levels is that eagle's level of intellect isn't all that high (this is what Uedo said -- don't send nasty e-mails to us). It may not move according to your expectations. As an example, you may be able to clear an area if the eagle would just sit still. However, the eagle ends up moving.

Ueda's comments were even more vague on the onlne possibilities for the game. He would only say there are things they'd like to do with online, but that he could not say if it will be possible to realize them.

For this third project, Team ICO is making use of some advanced technology. Different from their past titles, they're using real physics. As an example of this, Ueda made note of a scene where the creature eats a barrel. This is not done with motion capture, but with actual physical calculations involving the barrel and the creature's mouth.

Uedo also noted the game's pairing of the AI of ICO and the collision schemes of Shadow of the Colossus. This older technology has all been redone at PS3 levels.

The staff is paying great attention to one particular environmental effect: wind. The wind determines how the eagle's feathers sway. Each feather is processed individually.

Just a bit more about the name before we let you get back to the trailer. There's actually more meaning to the Japanese name than the literal "The Giant Man-Eating Eagle Toriko" translation that we provided above. As mentioned by Ueda in the interview, the word "Toriko" can be taken to mean prisoner, a baby bird, and a pairing of bird (tori) and cat (neko).

He did not mention that the word can also be transcribed as "Trico." Yes, it appears that we've known the name of Team ICO's newest project for some time now.





And so did 1up (some overlapping info but it's rather interesting):

...this week's issue of Famitsu magazine contains an interview with director Fumito Ueda that blows the door open on both the trailer and everything else that he and his team are aiming for with their first publicly-announced project in four years.

The trailer's focus is naturally on Trico, the "great man-eating eagle" of the game's Japanese-language title and a creature with a bit of bird, cat, dog, and everything else you can think of in him. Did the game's core concept begin with this guy's design? "We thought we could take the relationship you built with Agro as you went through Shadow of the Colossus and make that more of the main focus of the game design," Ueda said. "Also, both the PlayStation 3 and Japan-made video games in general haven't exhibited a lot of energy lately, so we chose a theme for our game that instead offered a very strong presence."

Discussing Trico's design, Ueda revealed that his team's primary focus was to create a virtual creature that was interesting to interact with while being as realistic as possible. "Replicating a real-life dog or cat is not impossible, but if you have a dog or cat in real life, you're always going to notice the unnatural idiosyncrasies of the virtual animal first," he said. "The current design is a product of thinking about what works with the game's design while looking as natural as possible. It's a mixture of features from many animals, and even I think it's a pretty strange combination. That's what we were aiming for, though. We kept it deliberately unbalanced because looking strange was important here.

"There are lots of games that have cute-looking characters, but that 'cute' is mostly a symbolic 'cute,' taking real life and deforming it. The traits of a real animal are much more complex, but I think video games, and in particular the power of the PS3, have the power to express them. The challenge for us is to show truly animal-like expressions -- the way the eyes move and open, or the way it moves or raises its hackles."

In The Last Guardian, the player controls the boy seen in the trailer, interacting with the eagle as he explores the game world. Exactly how the boy and eagle meet up is still a secret, but one scene in the trailer seems to show the boy giving the eagle some food. "You can feed the eagle, as well as take out any spears or harpoons stuck in his body," Ueda said. "You're free to interact with him at any time, but having to care for him constantly would be annoying, so we're striking a balance. Building your characters and solving puzzles are important parts of any game, but an animal strikes a presence in your life simply by looking at it. There is an air of mystery to them, since you can't be sure what thoughts could be crossing their mind, and that's another reason why animals are a main theme of the game."

Interacting with your griffin-ish friend is not going to be smooth going from start to finish, however. "The eagle does not simply follow all of your directions," Ueda said. "Throwing something that catches his interest will get him to move -- you aren't working with him and giving him orders, but you're more taking advantage of his natural behavior. Sometimes, you'll need him to sit still in order to finish a section, but he'll run off on you instead. He's not all that smart, and he won't necessarily do what the player wants all the time."

As Ueda put it to Famitsu, the classic Ico/Colossus gameplay -- climbing up, grabbing on to things, figuring out how to get from point A to point B -- will be the main thrust of The Last Guardian as well. "This game, unlike the previous ones, runs on a full physics engine, but it's not just for the purposes of technology," he noted. "I think it's important that any piece of technology you use contributes to the themes you're trying to express. We're very serious about this -- for example, in the scene [in the trailer] where the eagle grabs the barrel and swallows it, that's not simple animation; the barrel makes interactive contact with his mouth, and physical momentum drives it down his throat. We learned a great deal about AI processing in Ico and transformative collisions in Shadow of the Colossus; here, we've put the two together and brought them up to PlayStation 3 level, and that lets us make this world the kind of inviting, 'I wish I could go there' place that Ico and Colossus had."

Sony Computer Entertainment announced at E3 that The Last Guardian is a 2010 release, and Ueda declined to go into further specifics, other than to say "there is definitely a reason why we are announcing this when we are." Online compatibility is still up in the air -- "There are things I'd like to do with the online environment," Ueda said, but "I can't definitely say whether it will happen."
#48 at 22:42:29 - 06/06/2009
repairmanjack
Flag
Posts:4135
Comments:206
Thread Kills:94(2%)
AATG Pts:240
Star Rating
Silver Medal
nekotcha said:Wasn't at all sure about the sneaking past guards stuff. :/


Tch.

Taffer.
#49 at 23:31:56 - 06/06/2009
billdoor
Flag
Posts:3884
Comments:183
Thread Kills:158(4%)
AATG Pts:180
Star Rating
Bronze Medal
So from quickly scanning the famistu translations, this is a sort of pet management game with some platforms/puzzles chucked in?
#50 at 15:33:02 - 08/06/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
I'd rather call it a platform puzzler with pet management thrown in. :P
#51 at 15:39:02 - 08/06/2009
billdoor
Flag
Posts:3884
Comments:183
Thread Kills:158(4%)
AATG Pts:180
Star Rating
Bronze Medal
Have they cloned peter moulinex?
#52 at 15:45:03 - 08/06/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
I've never played Fable but I reckon the cat-eagle could eat up Moleneux's virtual dog for breakfast. :P
#53 at 15:48:40 - 08/06/2009
peej
Flag
Posts:14637
Comments:4691
Thread Kills:462(3%)
AATG Pts:400
Star Rating
Gold Medal
billdoor said:Have they cloned peter moulinex?


No, because Ueda usually delivers on his promises :)

Cateagle looks fappin' awesome and this game is pretty much one of the games I'm practically moist about for this year.
#54 at 15:51:37 - 08/06/2009
Rhythm
Flag
Posts:3297
Comments:130
Thread Kills:87(3%)
AATG Pts:150
Star Rating
Bronze Medal
The single largest meh of E3 for me by far. Why people rate these games is beyond me :-(
#55 at 15:54:16 - 08/06/2009
NewYork
Flag
Posts:5237
Comments:1481
Thread Kills:105(2%)
AATG Pts:330
Star Rating
Gold Medal
How did you get on with Ico and SotC?
#56 at 15:58:32 - 08/06/2009
billdoor
Flag
Posts:3884
Comments:183
Thread Kills:158(4%)
AATG Pts:180
Star Rating
Bronze Medal
peej said:
billdoor said:Have they cloned peter moulinex?


No, because Ueda usually delivers on his promises :)

Cateagle looks fappin' awesome and this game is pretty much one of the games I'm practically moist about for this year.
"meh".

I'm sure it will get in the way of playing the game.
#57 at 16:01:02 - 08/06/2009
peej
Flag
Posts:14637
Comments:4691
Thread Kills:462(3%)
AATG Pts:400
Star Rating
Gold Medal
You have no soul :)

It looks to me like they've got the "giant creature" concept from SOTC meshed with the "oi, you, NO over here! OVER HERE YOU STUPID BINT!" of Ico.

TBH though I could quite happily play the game if you just get to watch looped animations of Cateagle eating barrels.
#58 at 16:09:57 - 08/06/2009
billdoor
Flag
Posts:3884
Comments:183
Thread Kills:158(4%)
AATG Pts:180
Star Rating
Bronze Medal
I've not played SotC but from watching a video clip of the first level, I did think, why's that giant creature got some scaffolding on his back that makes it eminently possible to climb up his back.
#59 at 16:12:13 - 08/06/2009
peej
Flag
Posts:14637
Comments:4691
Thread Kills:462(3%)
AATG Pts:400
Star Rating
Gold Medal
Have you played Ico at all?

I think the new project looks like a nice meshing of the two, most definitely - but I can see where the "puzzle" mechanics could come from.

I wish the trailers had the proper audio from the game in them rather than the (admittedly rather excellent) music. I want to hear what that thing sounds like.
#60 at 16:14:32 - 08/06/2009

home
Left 1 2 3 4 Right