The Bickering and Handbags Thread


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Khanivor
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Again :( Why must there be such a knee-jerk like reaction to any criticism of the place? That dude Shinji really takes the fuking piss sometimes and that locking of the thread about teh bundy was sad. And silly, especially as I was personally studiously avoiding asking for any individual to be banned. Reading comprehension is something I would expect someone in journalism to have a better grip on.

Sorry for the rant. Neeed to vent a wee bit and I just know that if I posted a new thread querying the lack of logic in Shini's post that he'd prolly use that as an excuse to GI me which is an irony I'm to set up to deal wit at this time of the morn.

/and breath out

:)
#1 at 14:58:58 - 22/05/2007
Tomo
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Seems like a fair enough lock to me. It's the same old shit and it's not going to change.

Anyway, maximum bonus points to UncleLou for sneakily making that thread descend into a bundier! A very sly dig from you to get the ball rolling!
#2 at 15:36:27 - 22/05/2007
strangeed
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I don't use the EG forums really anymore. The only thing I am still over there for is that I am on the list of people waiting for the softmod kit. Otherwise I sometimes look at the vids they post. Other than that I'm here.
#3 at 15:36:28 - 22/05/2007
pauleyc
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Shinji has a point though. Since I put bundy on ignore the forum was a bit more friendly again; at least I can't see any of those insane threads he used to create.

I just wish people would stop quoting that idiot.
#4 at 15:42:08 - 22/05/2007
djchump
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They not banned his latest sock yet then?
Lame...
#5 at 15:46:08 - 22/05/2007
Furbs
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Just start linking to here. Its time for revolution! People need reminding.

Shame I didnt screengrab his little rant against me in the FA Cup thread on Saturday which the cowardly little child deleted. Would have made a mockery of his "what do I do wrong?" stance and was in clear violation of Shinj's guidelines.
#6 at 15:48:15 - 22/05/2007
peej
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Missed all this, what did he do now!

Peej
#7 at 15:49:20 - 22/05/2007
Furbs
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Just the usual - being a cock muncher.

Wheres Uncle Lou these days by the way? I notice he's another bundyvictim and doesnt post much, nor here, so he must be posting somewhere. Maybe .de is where its at.
#8 at 15:53:46 - 22/05/2007
ilmaestro
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Furbs said:
Shame I didnt screengrab his little rant against me in the FA Cup thread

Or his mini tirade against nekotcha in a Halo 3 or HAZE thread (they kind of blend together), or... or...

How hard would it be for the mods to click the GI button once they realize he's back? I don't think anyone is expecting them to spend all day hunting every new account of his down, just to nullify him once it's obvious that it's him.

And yes, I know the general 'don't moan about EG in here' rule, but I also know that this post would be deleted by mods/end up in a locked thread on EG, so I just hope that someone (Mappy, kalel, I don't know) reads this in here.
#9 at 15:55:08 - 22/05/2007
Furbs
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He's Shinj's pet project, thats why. He loves it, hence the "on probation" thing (weird, more GI's than most users have posts, but still on probation?).

Meh, we just need a recruitment drive again. The time is right.

Especially with him about to start his summer holidays and go into post-overdrive o/

/popcorn
#10 at 15:59:09 - 22/05/2007
Carrybagma
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pauleyc said:
I just wish people would stop quoting that idiot.

Sorry dude. I like (some) bundy quotes.

@khanivor: I think your suggestion that their modding policy doesn't work was what got up his nose and provoked such a harsh response. Truth is, bundy knows that many people hate his personality and he revels in it. He's not breaking any rules, he's just being who he is. It's almost ironic really, because whereas people used to wind him up and get him banned, he seems to be having a reverse effect these days - sooner or later, someone will go too far and get banned for attacking him. More positively - hey! Another bundy thread got locked :oD

If he really does irritate too much, you should just ignore him. Or better still, have some fun at his expense.
#11 at 16:06:22 - 22/05/2007
kalel
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ilmaestro said:
Furbs said:
Shame I didnt screengrab his little rant against me in the FA Cup thread

Or his mini tirade against nekotcha in a Halo 3 or HAZE thread (they kind of blend together), or... or...

How hard would it be for the mods to click the GI button once they realize he's back? I don't think anyone is expecting them to spend all day hunting every new account of his down, just to nullify him once it's obvious that it's him.

And yes, I know the general 'don't moan about EG in here' rule, but I also know that this post would be deleted by mods/end up in a locked thread on EG, so I just hope that someone (Mappy, kalel, I don't know) reads this in here.


Yeah, I'm here.

There's various reasons why bundy is still around, but the long and short of it is we can't perma ban anyone, because they can just come back. Therefore we can only really ban people when they do something that is bannable, seems fair no?

To that end, it would really help if people forwarded links or whatever of when he does something that you seriously object to, we can't be about all the time and read every post.

Shinji makes some very solid points I think, regardless of whether you think they apply to you or not Khani, the forum would have far less aggro on it right now if people paid attention to what he said.
#12 at 16:08:16 - 22/05/2007
Retroid
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Saw that one against Nekotcha.

Wanker.
#13 at 16:09:20 - 22/05/2007
Furbs
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kalel can mods see deleted posts? I'm guessing not :(

Also, if EG were serious about wanting him gone, they could do more. A letter, abuse forms to his ISP (rauper was quite happy to let me do the donkey work for Bored_Gamer) and so on.

The trouble is, noone in authority has ever said "We dont want you here. Full stop." to him which is why he comes back and why he comes back and promises not to be a pain in the arse and says "oh but I've been good now, theres nothing you can do about me teehee".

Like ilmaestro says, this forum isnt really the place for debate, but it's seemingly a taboo topic on EG these days...any criticism is increasingly locked immediately, which wasnt the reason people wanted more mods. And whilst Shinj is right an no one person should be judge, jury and executioner, that has to be balanced against the community aspect.

/cue morriss coming in a moaning about this thread.
#14 at 16:16:02 - 22/05/2007
Khanivor
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It's the hypocrisy of Shinji's post (and the audacity to then accuse me of it :D) which is galling. But not as galling as the disregard for what I feel is a valid bloody question - just what does one have to do to earn oneself a ban, one that the people running the place can be arsed to make stick? Seeing as it seems there's nothing which warrants such effort then why continue with the charade of rules and regulations in the first place?

If the mods can see the IP of a user then surely the solution is not that hard. If the user manages to disguise who they really are then the same effect has been achieved; it's not banning the user but removing the bad shit being posted. But aye, its obvious by the attempt to cover up the fact nothing will be done with a showboating display to the terraces that appeals for sanity will fall on deaf ears. I feel sorry for the unpaid mods who have to put up with the shit (both from twats like bundy and exasperated users like myself) and are not given the tools nor the permission to deal with things.

And what is so hard for some to understand that you don't want a place where you spend so much time to have a stench of poo lingering about it? You can ignore all you want but the smell would still linger. For someone who fancies themselves as sharp as Shinji does you'd think he'd be aware of the fact the forum is tad more then a collection of unrelated threads and posts and there's a lot of leakage and meta-textualisation going on. Heck, if you don't mind me saying, some of the populating of this here forum can be traced back to those very things :)

Sorry for bringing dirty EG laundry here but got nowhere else to discuss it. I got another good display of how well some over there react to criticism.

#15 at 16:18:35 - 22/05/2007
djchump
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kalel said:
There's various reasons why bundy is still around, but the long and short of it is we can't perma ban anyone, because they can just come back. Therefore we can only really ban people when they do something that is bannable, seems fair no?

Couldn't you just keep banning them whenever they get outted or out themselves?

I think it's quite a morale-drain for legitimate users (i.e those who haven't caused trouble and been banned/GIed in the past) as it just doesn't seem fair that a handful of people can do as they please with basically no recourse.
It also gives across the message that Bored_Gamer "broke" the mods and to some extent that you just can't be bothered to make the effort to ban them when they crop up again.

But hey, this is just my 2p-worth to show how I sympathise with Khanivor. His frustrations are exactly the reason I left the EG forum. :-/
#16 at 16:21:53 - 22/05/2007
kalel
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Furbs said:kalel can mods see deleted posts? I'm guessing not :(

Also, if EG were serious about wanting him gone, they could do more. A letter, abuse forms to his ISP (rauper was quite happy to let me do the donkey work for Bored_Gamer) and so on.

The trouble is, noone in authority has ever said "We dont want you here. Full stop." to him which is why he comes back and why he comes back and promises not to be a pain in the arse and says "oh but I've been good now, theres nothing you can do about me teehee".

Like ilmaestro says, this forum isnt really the place for debate, but it's seemingly a taboo topic on EG these days...any criticism is increasingly locked.


No, sadly we can’t see deleted posts.

With regards to the IP thing, I’ll take your word for it and talk to raups if necessary. However, it doesn’t really change the issue that he shouldn’t be banned just for being disagreeable. A lot of people on the forum seem to think that thinking he’s a cock is a good enough reason to call for a ban, but it just isn’t.

Also, with respect nobody apart form the mods know how we’ve been dealing with this behind closed doors, and what’s been said to al. Wew’ve been in pretty much daily communication with him over PM for weeks now.

As for locking the criticism on EG, I really feel that it’s for the best. Some people choose to PM the mods, and this is much appreciated and all feedback is taken on board, and those who have PMed me including many on here know that I take a lot of time out to deal with every PM I get, and take them all seriously.

However just starting upa thread to have a good bitch about EG, the state of the forum, mods, al and everything like that is just not constructive. They’re not always locked, it’s not a principle, but they will be locked if they degenerate into abuse and such, which they always do.

Apolgies to the AATG admins and such btw, but this is here now, so we may as well all say our bit..
#17 at 16:23:35 - 22/05/2007
Furbs
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I agree, he shouldnt be banned for simply being a cock (although imo there comes a point where if one person is causing disruption because of a personality conflict with a large amount of individuals then you have to say "enoughs enough" regardless of official rulesets). He should be banned because umm...well he is and has been repeatedly.

Re. the comments about "constructive" though...you cant say one one hand "bundy hasnt broken any rules" then on the other says its ok to ban non-constructive posts. Theres nothing in the forum guidelines about that, and I think its sad that the very community that has made the place no longer has any role in shaping the forum. I dont think its a conscious descision, its just the way its turned out.

The trouble with PM'ing is theres no way of getting an idea of how other people feel about it. 100 people could have issue with something, but only 1 of them draw a mods attention to it. That then gets the same attention as an issue a single person has an objection to. To use an obtuse example, its like the government prefering people to send a letter to an MP rather than have a protest since a group is more likely to effect change.

Loving the "Cunt" thing at the moment over there though. Civil Disobedience. Who says we are the apathetic generation :)

Oh. Locked. What a shock :)
#18 at 16:28:44 - 22/05/2007
Carrybagma
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kalel said:
Also, with respect nobody apart form the mods know how we’ve been dealing with this behind closed doors, and what’s been said to al. Wew’ve been in pretty much daily communication with him over PM for weeks now.

Really? Daily? That's a bit.. sad. Are you trying to coach him or telling him off? Either way, doesn't that strike you as a lot of (possibly) pointless effort?

#19 at 16:32:11 - 22/05/2007
CrispyXUK
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Why thank you, I've lost count of how many posts I've had deleted.
#20 at 16:33:23 - 22/05/2007
kalel
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The fact remains that many forumites didn't get off to very good starts, but eventually became part of the furniture. "Redemption and rehabilitation" is not so much a policy as a byproduct of the forum's limitaitons, but nevertheless, it has worked out quite well for the most part. Therefore the 'he should be banned because he has been before' doesn't hold up.

However, once again, if he does anything that is straight out bannable, he'll be banned.

To my knowledge, there's only ever been one poster who was straight out banned simply for being a constant source of disruption on the forum, and I'm aware of the irony that I played no small part in that. What can I say? He had the good grace to realise where he wasn't wanted and not return, al won't do that.
#21 at 16:35:23 - 22/05/2007
Khanivor
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As I said to you kalel I do appreciate you taking the time to talk to me directly on the matter but by its very nature a forum is a public place. And while constant threads about banninations are in themselves disruptive they exist only because they are people about causing grief to users who just wanna get along and talk and nothing decisive is being done about it. It is not a chicken and egg situation :)

I'm sure it would suit folk like Shinji if no one ever mentioned the ban word and no one discussed the effect folk like bundy have and the even more tragic effect the lack of action from the EG operations dept has but frankly you are getting into very dodgy ethical grounds there and people start thinking in terms which have next to zero positive connotations.

And while I am no code god I really do not think it would be very hard at all to block certain IPs from accessing the forum's database even when using custom software like EG does. I know PHPBB allows this to be done within about 3 mouseclicks of an admin logging in. Why this hasn't been done is a mystery to me and I'm sure many others. So I do not accept the claims from on high that perm bans are an impossibility.

Sure dynamic IPs make it a bit trickier but as soon as a banned username reappears then add that IP to the pool. Not ideal and discussion with an ISP could lead to less effort being required but the amount of work involved versus the payoff for riding the place of disruptive egomaniacal shites like bundy is surely worth it.

Well, from the PoV of many users, current and now ex, but apparently not from the view of the EG editorial crew. Why they tollerate it is something I would really like to have an honest answer for.
#22 at 16:38:57 - 22/05/2007
Carrybagma
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Furbs said:
Loving the "Cunt" thing at the moment over there though. Civil Disobedience. Who says we are the apathetic generation :)

Oh. Locked. What a shock :)

Did you see the thread where peeps posted 'custard' after every joeking post, because of a mis-undertanding over the 'c word'? Most amusing.
#23 at 16:39:06 - 22/05/2007
Furbs
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kalel said:The fact remains that many forumites didn't get off to very good starts, but eventually became part of the furniture. "Redemption and rehabilitation" is not so much a policy as a byproduct of the forum's limitaitons, but nevertheless, it has worked out quite well for the most part. Therefore the 'he should be banned because he has been before' doesn't hold up.

I understand what you're saying, but we've been saying this for over a year now. Hell even Bored_Gamer is just waiting for a moment to blow. Want to see an example? Mention my name in a thread and see what reaction he gives...

The only way redemption works is if the individual totally changes the way they post. Infact the only example I can think of where redemption has worked is Fruit_Salad. DAMAGE_INC/Jazon is still going strong, as are the previously mentioned B_G and al.

Also, since this shouldnt be a "moan at kalel" thread, if Rauper really does lurk, it would be nice to get his thoughts.
#24 at 16:39:59 - 22/05/2007
MetalDog
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It's been my experience of the bundy affair that the people who don't like him fuck up the forum with endless bitching and trolling about it to an extent bundy himself could never dream of achieving. The fact that they tend to be so self-righteous about it as well just makes it all the more irritating.
#25 at 16:40:13 - 22/05/2007
Furbs
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Very good MD. So what you're saying is if there was no bundy, there wouldnt be the problem :) Its what people have been saying ever since he first got banned.

As for self-righteous...well, glasshouses eh?
#26 at 16:42:41 - 22/05/2007
WOPR
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MetalDog said:It's been my experience of the bundy affair that the people who don't like him fuck up the forum with endless bitching and trolling about it to an extent bundy himself could never dream of achieving. The fact that they tend to be so self-righteous about it as well just makes it all the more irritating.

+1
#27 at 16:43:57 - 22/05/2007
MetalDog
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Furbs said:Very good MD. So what you're saying is if there was no bundy, there wouldnt be the problem :) Its what people have been saying ever since he first got banned.

As for self-righteous...well, glasshouses eh?


After all the snidey, weaselly shit-stirring you've been doing the last few months, take a wild guess what I think of your opinion of me.
#28 at 16:46:26 - 22/05/2007
Furbs
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Wow. You named a name! o/

I'm hurt :(
#29 at 16:47:36 - 22/05/2007
Khanivor
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Yeah, there's an element of disruption caused by people bitching about bundy but if there was no bundy...

Either you ask people to accept a turd floating in their soup or you accept they are gonna ask the waiter to please replace their bowl with a jobbie-free one. For the last year or so it seems the head waiters have been acting very French :)

It gets better. Bundy's locked thread has been saved by having all the nasty words edited out. Sorry, but wtf? The amount of time taken to do that coulda seen a whole buncha IPs bannianted :D

Oh well.
#30 at 16:48:12 - 22/05/2007

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