Are The Left 4 Dead 2 Boycotters Retarded?

   12/06/2009 at 13:29       NewYork       18 COMMENTS.
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Summary: We assessed the Left 4 Dead boycotting group to test our hypothesis that they were retarded. We found that while the entire community was not retarded, more than half were, which should factor into how seriously Valve needs to take the boycott threats.

Rationale for study: We at AATG have been confused by the Steam community's recent call for a boycott of Left 4 Dead 2. Why so much drama over a mere sequel? We considered all the possibilities - perhaps, for example, spoiled by Valve's excellent customer service over the years, fans of Left 4 Dead have been left feeling overly entitled and suddenly able to make demands of their beloved company.

Perhaps they had a point: maybe Valve were more interested in taking fans' money, rather than making them happy. Who ever heard of a company releasing a sequel to a game, after all?

We even considered the possibility that the majority of members in the 20,000-strong boycott group are just there to see what goes on inside the group. After all, if 23 of us AATG staff members joined up simply to laugh at people, how many others did the same?

But then our intern Ricky Tomlinson (better known as the office coffee boy), offered a compelling idea: perhaps all the L4D2 boycotters are retarded. It can't be, we thought. But then we started looking through the comments, and we began to see a pattern emerge. Yes, it could be. But we're not the type to make sweeping generalisations: we had to test our hypothesis scientifically.

Method: We took the first 200 relevant comments from the L4D2 Boycott group's comments thread. We then made a judgement on each comment: is it retarded, or not?

Criteria was simple: spelling mistakes and grammar errors indicated retarded-ness. For objectivity, we used Microsoft Word to help make the decisions. Of course, if there was a paragraph-long comment with a single spelling error, we gave the comment the benefit of the doubt, and classed it as "non-retarded." We were really looking for obvious errors, only. We always stayed on the side of caution, ensuring our calculation of retarded-ness would be an underestimate. We weren't hardcore with grammar errors, either: we don't expect internet comments to be New York Times worthy material (heck, even we journalistic Gods are prone to simple errors) - however, screwing up apostrophes and not capitalising your "I"s are a no-no.

Data collection: We collected comments in chronological order starting from the latest comment, until we had 200 eligible comments. We omitted certain comments from the study, if they fell into the following categories:
1. Comments celebrating number of posts or number of members
2. Comments containing only ASCII art
3. Comments made to correct another comment's spelling or grammar
4. Comments that were not clearly pro-boycott (off-topic comments)
5. Comments that were anti-boycott
6. Comments including only a URL
7. Non-sensical comments (e.g. "Eye of the Penis COMEBACK l4d 2 fack ya!!!!1111 ZOMBAMA!!!")
8. Comments in a non-English language
9. Comments from members who posted too much (to avoid skewing of results)

Results: After much deliberation, we finally sorted the comments as either "retarded" or "non-retarded". Decisions were made through collaboration. Where there was an irreconcilable disagreement over whether a comment was retarded or non-retarded, we stayed on the side of caution and went with non-retarded.

We finally found that, out of 200 comments, 101 were retarded. Thus, we can say that 50.5% of the boycotters are retarded. Or, for your headlines, "Over half of L4D2 boycotters are retarded."

Discussion: More than half is a lot. That immediately discredits 10,000 of the 20,000 boycotters. A higher result would have led us to conclude that the main reason for boycotting L4D2 was retarded-ness, but from this study, we can at best say that retarded-ness is one of many factors contributing to the boycotters motives. Does this mean that Valve should take the boycott threats any less seriously? We think yes, not least because this indicates that at least half of the boycotters will simply forget to boycott the game when it comes out, if they understand what boycotting entails in the first place.

Criticisms of the study:
1. We deliberately underestimated the retarded-ness of the group, so the results could be more significant than we're letting on
2. You can't just measure retarded-ness of people through spelling and grammar. We classed a number of comments as non-retarded even though they probably were retarded in content. This is harder to judge objectively, however.
3. Steam is an international community, so we accept that we perhaps unfairly judged members for whom English is not a primary language. To eliminate such an error would require further research.
4. We perhaps held the boycotting group to an unfair standard

Statement of conflicts of interest: We don't take the boycott entirely seriously, which may have had an impact on how we conducted and presented the study.

Disclosure of data: In interests of transparency, we disclose our data below, with red comments meaning "retarded", and non-red comments meaning "non-retarded". We will gladly consider any corrections suggested to us.


1. Day after day..I hate valve more and more...I WILL NEVER BUY SHIT! Valve sucks...

2. What's the big deal???
I've bought a game not even finished, and I'll have to buy it twice?
I'm student, I work to pay my studies? 50 IS a big deal to me.
And what make the strong of the CS and TF's communities?? => Time.


3. valve'll lost 1 485 000 $ if nobody inthis group buy the game ;)

4. whats the big deal about left for dead 2 not being downloadable content or w.e just buy the damn game already im sure most of the ppl in here are going to buy it anyway

5. I found this on deviantart it's not well done, but it gets the message across

http://superpandacomics.deviantart.com/art/Left-4-Dead-2-Boycot t-125643040

6. C'mon, invite your friends and people who may support boycott ideas too.

7. they said ''big enough for a full release'' cod patches can be 500mb, thats just how big l4d is! make it a frigging pach or add-on

8. ITS TOO SOON!!!

also... im gonna invite ppl to this group.. ;o


9. You know why people who play a lot video games are called the gamer base or the "core" gamer. These terms were around before marketers started using them. These people truly are the pillar of valve and others dev. We spread the word and hype of a game. Sure the goal will always be expanded the base to the normal "casual gamer" but those people are fickle and will leave the video game environment once the next cultural technology interest comes.

10. In Response to [VGN] A Meat Pompsicle's post you are quoting articles based on TV or movie fan bases although 20k is not a lot compared to all of valve's fans 20k is still enough to merit a look at what this group is meant to portray that a part of the community is disappointed with the decision to make l4d2 instead of supporting the original or releasing it as a full scale major update. as well as some other complaints listed in the group description coming on here and telling us we are wrong in an ignorant fashion is not helping you cause one bit, whatever it may be. In my eyes this group is to provoke conversation about l4d2 in order to help valve make wise decisions.

11. I know so many people who do not plan on buying L4D2 just because L4D came out less than a year ago and there is nothing special to be in the game. It is crap that they expect us to pay $40 or $50 for what should be a major content update to the current game just because Valve wants to take advantage of dumbass console noobs.

12. the one thing i hate most about L4D2 is the new characters i mean the current characters are perfect why change the characters when people love them ? the fact is L4D2 will be a failure in selling cause im not gonna buy it and by the looks of it not alot of people will be they

i remember reading somewhere apparently why there making L4D2 something about "how much they wanted to change and make better and update that it would be easier makeing a sequel but i think thats bullshit :/ what do yous think ?


13. Well if we're going to get picky about spelling/grammar, 'there's','insane' & 'they're' is also wrong... :P

Anyway, i think i would be happy to pay for *large* (no, not what we were promised) content updates, but i still don't see the need for splitting the community in 2/destroying the l4d community by creating a sequel. Either end l4d and integrate all into l4d2, or ditch l4d2 completely.

14. I fully beileve L4D2 should just be a massive update to L4D.

15. Not a smooth part on Valve to stab us in our back. We are loyal gamers and fully support their products but L4D2 is a game I will boycott until our demands are heard and honored.

16. I love valve, but this a mistake. L4D2 Should be a different game, not an expansion pack, and it should be released when people start getting tired of the original one.

17. "If" they make this game lol... it's already in development, i won't be buying l4d 2 that's for sure, i meen it feels like yesterday i just the bought l4d, and they only released what? 3 or 4 major updates for it, this is insaine! Not to mention starting a second version of the game, when theres still bugs to be delt with, on the first one! What they need to be doing, is taking all that work there doing on the second one, and integrate it with the first one... Now ask yourself one question...

"Why would i buy a second edition of a game, when the first edition isn't finished"?!


18. valve should at least give a discount ito the people who bought l4d if they make this game

19. Paying fifty dollars for content that should be on the original? Ridiculous.

20. Methinks most of the pro-L4D2 players hassle us with insults and rhetoric because they are afraid we might succeed. Dissuasion in the hopes of making sure L4D2 arrives, perhaps?

21. hey evryone! Gabe refused the offer! so how are we gonna do?

22. lol higginz says were raging...we havent said a cuss word or been violent towards any1

23. It appears to me like Higginz is the one nerd raging.

Please stop whining, and get out.

This is called boycotting, and non-violent resistance. Something I learned from Ghandi.

Valve has failed to deliver content on L4D1, and while believing they will support it is besides the point. If they do support, which they have said they will continue, it will recieve limited support at most, and it will lead to a division of the player base, thereby making it harder to get games, particularly in L41 when the new shiny version comes out.

Again, I respectfully ask you to get the fuck out.


24. sut up higginz, we are 30.000 members (and increasing) and we gonna do this. Is better 30.000 vs Valve than You (1) vs 30.000 L42 is an unnecesary game and Valve just wants more monney but we are not going to pay

KILL L4D2!!! We can do this!!


25. I am not buying this gave unless i get at least a +30% discount. I spent my $50 on this incomplete and woefully short game in good faith that Valve would deliver on its promises to make up for this deficientcy. I had no reason to doubt Valve after the success of CSS and TF2.

Valve I really did not expect this from you. Contratulations, you're on the way to becoming the new EA...


26. I thought there was lots of glitches in the original......like in the shitty AI

27. I won't be buying L4D2, for full price at least

28. I hope you people dont buy a copy of L4D2... really! dont buy it! Stay with the cause

29. L4D2 should be just DLC that costs say 10, its just greedy to make it a second full game so fast! Valve has let me, and the L4D comunity down

30. I would have to say that my main disposition about L4D2 is the fact that if the game is released, they're gonna charge the full $50 for pc's, and $60 for console. I see very fiew relative changes made to the game other than a new setting, some new characters, and you have melee. Anyone can re-skin weapons, so I don't really count that. On top of that, the game has only been out for a year. After being talked about, and after much controversy and waiting by the public. L4D was released, only to be followed up by a sequel in a year?! That's just obsured. I can understand Valve wants to find methods to keep people happy, but this just isn't one of them to me. now, I don't feel that this should be a completely free DL, but I don't feel it qualifies a full charge. Maybe as a expansion pack maybe. I do think valve should find a way to create more maps and integrate the melee weapons into L4D1. It gives a whole new feel to the game, and gives people an idea what they're hinting at for L4D2.

31. Valve is retarded for making a sequal so soon. They need to update L4D before they go out and start a new game with an unfinished one chillin in their closet. I better not have to pay retail or i'll be pissed..... FML

32. Dont forget to keep hitting the forums to post, keep emailing valve yourselves as individuals, keeping email gaming websites new submissions emails and spread the word.

This wont work unless we all do atleast one of things every other day or so, just sitting this community wont do anything. We have be heard on a consistant basis and let valve know we wont just sit around and give up when we get bored.


33. When I first heard about this, i was pissed. I did not think I got my money's worth of the first game, because of how short it was. Of course I was waiting for DLC, but this? Valve, you made the stupidest thing you have ever done. And that is saying something, considering how popular you are in the gaming-community.

34. They need to make this dlc and for less than 29.99$ making it retail will destroy the community.

35. I commend you guys for setting up this group, whilst I understand Valve's point of view, it is pretty crazy to timetable a sequel after such a short lifespan for the original. Well done guys, keep up the great work!

36. Yah I saw that news in french on jeuxvideo.com too and... Finaly some good news :3 Cheers !

37. I need new updates for L4D, I`m not need L4D2!

38. yea, congrats guys, valve cant ignore this

39. Woah, professional manifest there, hopefully Valve pays some serious attention to this, rather then just blowing us off as a few angry nerds. Well done guys, keep it up

40. sorry it's french: http://www.jeuxvideo.com/news/2009/00034868-left-4-dead-2-gabe-ne well-repond-a-la-polemique.htm

41. just make it DLC pls :S

42. Make me one more! L4D1 is not finished, there are still glitches and bugs left to fix! Now they like "remove" the nice loveble survivors and make a new game i must pay for! This is a typical "IT'Z GONNA PRINT MONEY BITCHEEEZ!!" game.

43. What if they released the second game with the L4D1 content added into it along with the new content, redo the campaign and versus maps with some of the new stuff added into them, but at least the original survivors and the core original L4D 1 will still be there for play, sort of like a polishing of the original content, alongside the new content of l4d2, sure it might be delayed abit longer, but at least l4d 1 won't become obsolete.

44. just make it DLC, no probs

45. Yeahhh....remember shining force 1,2? game maked witch love,and now shining force neo,exa omg its just high cash shit. and new nfs,new def jam and moooooooore others.

46. "Before; developers loved games and made cash. Now; developers love cash and make games." You sir, hit the nail on the head. :)

47. This is what I don't like; how some people say we're whining that we're getting something "awesome". Lets kindly put this in perspective.

Say TF2 launches the Medic, Heavy and Pyro weapons, everyones freaking out about how awesome it is, and they can't wait to see the new content for the favorite classes. Then a few months later, they annouce TF3. People. Would. Flip. Tables. Might be hard to think about, but that's exactly what happened to us.

We waited how many months after the original release of L4D, then we got the surivor pack. We though "Hell yeah! Two new VS maps, a new game mode, and to top it all off, the long awaited SDK is now in Beta and released. Nothing but up hill, right? E3, slap in the face.

We're not whining, we just want our money's worth for what we paid.


48. All this BS, its the fault of the damn consoles. Seriusly, when you think about it. Its all about the DLC and the MICROSOFT rules about it. The damn cash once again. You dont need cash VALVE, I mean, of course you do. But you dont need to do like the other morons developers that only have $$$ in their eyes. Why do you think we like you? Because you didnt have the $$$ in your eyes... but something else.

As I always say, Before; developers loved games and made cash. Now; developers love cash and make games.

He is not gonna change anything. The bastard, He gave G4TV ''some explications.

Heres the link to this ass hole's Q/A

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/696431/Opening-The-Valve-The- Gabe-Newell-Interview.html

:(


50. I think L4D2 will be a great game but why make it its own entity? This game is still new and needs many improvements which are being neglected. A whole new game after what 1 year? there is no reason for a new one so soon. There are very few MP games that have done this (COD4-5 is the only 1 that comes to mind). A new game will split the community, weaken clans and leagues. They should build L4D up by using #2 as an expansion. From the business perspective they will make more money off a new game, why not just charge the same price for an expansion? An expansion may even make them more money since some players may not want a whole new game.

51. l4d2 should be $15 DLC. That's what it's worth.

52. Constant updates are what keeps TF2 a sucessful high quailty game, valve are no idiots, so why coudnt they see that NOT releasing sequals and just updating games with new (and actualy imporatant) content is the most sucessful route to go down. The only important update for L4D 1 that has been created is survival mode which (in my opinion) just added a game mode that (really) should have been in the game when it launched anyway. So why dont they work on more updates, add new eapons or perhaps expand on the stupidly low amount of 4 campaigns (Not including Last Stand, Its not really a campaign..)(The campaigns were good but there could of been more...) O yer i am a fan of the original L4D its just there were some big flaws in the game that should be corrected instead of making a 2nd game.

53. Valve, you have betrayed us. Anyone else agree?

54. Just let me buy this as an expansion pack!

55. I believe people who own L4D should get at least a 33% discount on L4D2

56. not possible because valve modded the sdk(beta) so you cant do a decent mod

so theres nothing valuable against l4d2


57. you wan't to show valve up? I see some mod tools are out. Try to make an l4d2 type mod for L4d1. Thatl'l show 'em!

58. We should ALL change are pics to the NO-L4D2 boycott pic. On moddb,any fourms you belong to, or anything, LETS ADVETISE THIS! Im not a devolper but i think this would really help! if everybody see's this thell join the group,
you guys need over 100,000 people NOT to by this game, then VAVLe might open there eye's!


59. "We also agree with our customers that there needs to be an interoperability plan for players of L4D1 and L4D2, as multiplayer games are driven by the cohesiveness of their community." - Gabe Newell

Well, I'd love to know how they plan to provide interoperatability without including either the entire L4D1 content in L4D2, or vice-versa! If they somehow manage to pull that off, that's at least one huge concern addressed!

I think we all need to reserve judgement until Valve provide ALL the FINAL details, but at least Valve are willing to acknowledge that our concerns have some validty and foundation (even if only a cross-section of our concerns, at least).


60. When will Valve fix the infinite molotov glitch!? ffs at least give us some bug fixes!

61. NO TO LEFT 4 DEAD

62. Today, I made a french trad of the manifesto and send it to l4d2boycott@gmail.com. Hope it will be online soon :)

63. The sad thing is I don't think there is anyone on this group that is opposed to a sequel. Its just that we want them to follow through with what they promised for L4D1. I would gladly spend the money on L4D2 if ithey had followed through with the original and solved the problem with splitting the player base.

64. Sorry to disappoint you, but L4D isn't going to receive new weapons, new campaigns or new characters as promised. The SDK comes standard with all Valve games and the MM 2.0 is only a fix for the current MM that doesn't work worth a damn. Those things are not content.. Here's the real kicker though. Gabe himself blamed the Xbox for the sequel. It wasn't because it was too big, or that it even deserved to be a sequel. It is because it is too big for the Xbox. I refuse to buy any PC game which is only going to be governed by Microsoft and the Xbox's restrictions. The reason Valve hasn't given specifics is because we aren't getting what we were promised. You can't tell me that they didn't know how the Xbox worked before they released the game.

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/696431/TheFeed.html

The boycott really won't make a difference since we already know they won't update the PC with new content without doing it for the Xbox too.

65. L4D 2 will most likely kill the first one, and literally. It will maul its sales and make the first seem far inferior. Bad move Valve. Bad move.

66. 26 000 people impressive, at this joining rate we get really high in few weeks, people may think 26k isnt much compared on total sales, but 26 000 x game prize, is a lot of money u wouldnt want to miss out in valves position.

67. Our numbers are currently 1% of the total L4D sales. However, be aware that this 1% (and growing) only consist of the people who actively seek to express themselves, who are willing to openly announce their stand on the whole affair.

I'm convinced there's a huge amount of people out there who, too, will not purchase this game for one reason or another.

Keep going strong, my friends! We've already begun making a difference!

68. Remember how long we had to wait for vs. episodes that were not included on launch. That's because developer resources were thrown on developing a "sequel". Then not long before E3 they released them with a new game mode (that gets old rather fast). Now it looks like an excuse for "sequel" announcement on E3.

69. Its not a matter of "IF" they release it anymore...but

I think they should call it >>> LEFT 4 DEAD: TOO

That 2 looks ugly and out of place....

70. DONT FORGET THE PETITION

http://www.petitiononline.com/banl4d2/petition.html

2562 Total Signatures ATM


71. Joined! I wish I had more than 4 friends on steam to invite :s

I agree wholeheartedly though, when I read about L4D2 I was like :o wtf and then when I read about this I was like f*** yeah!!! :D

72. All valve is going to do is try to reassure us that everything is going to be ok .. This is about more than L4D2 being just an excuse to charge more money, its about us not getting screwed by gaming companies who promise content and then try to call it a sequal and charge us for it instead.

73. Im not gonna buy the second part.. Maby if its 10 dollar.. This is another reason why we better can download somsething.. If you buy it you get screwed....

74. ld41 have fun , nooooooooooo l4d2 !!!!!!!!!!

75. Nothing like people joining the group just to post some Flame in the comments. GG there, Ellis. You're a big man.

76. left 4 dead 2 is a shit stupid idea anyways! if anyone from VALVe reads this wheres the PROMISED dlc for my friend and i?

77. I could see this being a nice add on for 20 or 30 bucks, but I won't pay 40 or 50 for it as it looks like the same game with a few new weapons.

78. Make this apply to the 360 version too.

79. if anyone from valve happens to read this, just wanted to ask, Where is my tf2 style updates?

80. Read the most recent interview with valve. They back paddle so badly. First it was "we wont be adding anything more than MM and SDK", now it's "of course we are adding campaigns, we alway were".

I think the boycott is getting something achieved, Valve never gave an inch until they realised they would lose 26,000 sales. Did they say anything when there was only 1000 boycotts? f-no.

Good work boycott, well done.

81. they'll do the same like they do in TF2. release community made maps for L4D1. but i'm not sure about the weapons and new achievements.

82. I reckon if the SDK is out a few weeks after release as promised, whatever is shown in the demo would probably be done by fans, perhaps, even better.

83. VALVe lost it's place in my hearth, as did Bethesda by making a fucked up Oblivion. Sad day...

84. this will be soooooo bad 4 valve

85. Y'know if Valve included the maps and the characeters from l4d in l4d2 i would buy it. I just want to carry on playing as Francis. I mean thats kind of what happened with Rock Band 2 which like this came out just one year later, but you could import all the content from Rock Band 1 into it, which made the sequel acceptable.

86. and my i say im actully gonn email wacthdog about this problem ya never know chuld be one YV

87. what we need is prove results that there is content being made for l4d one not jsut word and lies? but results we wahnt prove that there developing more stuff and whay so ahrd to make it an expasion pack chuld you imgine if the simes 2 never had expansion packs jsut diffretn games ?

88. I dont care about prize. But is is NOT sequel! This is expansion pack. Thats what it should be. I odnt want two games. I want one. Good one. If Valve said: "we dont have money, we have to do exp. pack" i would say (how couldnt you have money with thats prizes on STEAM??) ok, you are best, ill get you that money. But this? They fucked us up. (pardon my lenguage. im form europe)

89. All I want is 50% off L4D2 for being a day 1 owner of #1, I'm happy to $25 for an expansion pack so soon, not happy to pay $50. GET IT RIGHT VALVE, use your marketing skills, 50% off for L4D 1 owners, you keep your sales strong until L4D2 hits

90. I will not buy L4D2! =D

91. I don't care if it's free or not. I'd pay for that much content, just not as much as 'new' game. L4D2 is not a new game, it's the exact same engine as L4D with some basic changes. I'd be happy to buy it as an expansion or something as long as they did fill out L4D with more content like they said they would.

However, if we're stuck with the new characters in the new campaigns and other nonsensical changes like the backwoods swamprat hoe-down music, I won't pay a dime for it (and I really don't care if you think it's not in the group's core issues, because it will influence my buying decision).

I'll be dipped in shit before I listen to a couple of slack jawed hicks jabber on like fools, some screechy black chick and a sleazeball used car salesman for an hour long campaign while grooving to the smooth (yet just like nails on a chalkboard) sounds of 'Cletus Asshat and the Fuckwits - Greatest hits' in the soundtrack.

92. I don't think many of use want this content to be free. It's just that we want this content to become a part of L4D thrugh DLC and not a new game. Even if the content is 10/$20 I'll sure buy it, infact I don't really want it to be free, it would mean they wouldn't put as much effort in as they wouldn't be makiing any money. A L4D2 though? Perhaps not!

93. i really doubt the DLC for l4d...they will most likely make better content for l4d2...but as long as they fullfil their promises, im happy

94. l4d=beta l4d2 fuck valve

95. i am getting pissed of Valve give random people L4D2 beta... so some people try it and some can't that is bullshit, i think every l4d owners should get l4d2 beta as a gift so we can decide if it is worth it or not. btw i have l4d so :) add me if you wanna play: Ahmet_42alp

95. "and when the new director integrate new concepts through time and create the new game."

I'll paraphrase, I don't know how I didn't see I typed that.

Basically, if the new director's goign to be much better 6 months from now, who's to say it won't be much much better 6 months after that, or 6 months after that. Going back to my other points, it seems like this game's being outdated pretty quickly.


96. I want to know what people think. Given the face that new technology is always coming, what about the secound could they not have incorporated to the first, and what will they add to the first that wouldn't be diverse from the second. Making l4d obsolete one year later doesn't sound like an effort for the consumer

97. Ok the setting/characters would not cause this kind of reaction with people, and by continuing to bring it up we're drawing it out as one of our main points. If zombies attack during the day, you can expect it to be bright. As for character design, we don't know very much about them do we. That black dude could be funny as hell for all we know, or real church like which would still give me a laugh. Here's an alternative to what valve is doing and to me, sounds very plausible; release new campaigns, bosses weapons through DCL, (I don't know why they wouldn't have prepared for diverse content additions) and when the new director integrate new concepts through time and create the new game. Melee weapons? There's a HL2 zombie MOD that's distributed by steam now that has used them for years, and you're going to tell me they didn't take into account when creating their own zombie apocalypse?

98. well, looks like the game will have 25,746 less players, the servers arnt going to be too full.

99. The only element that would be a probleme is AI 2, is it enough to deserve a new game?
And if VALVe had kept is promise this "big" update would have been released progresively since the lunch of L4D.
And intregrate AI2 to L4D1 would have been a "real" work, witch would have deserved to pay (10 to 20 bucks) to play with it.

It's just my personal opinion here


100. it is compatible, it's the same engine, and everyone likes updates, so what if its a big one? just means more comtent which is always a welcome.
they could always add an option to play in South America under 'campaign' so it wouldnt change anything from the first l4d


101. Only 100 new menbers in two hours??
Keep on inviting guys, 25700 is far not enough.
Spread the word even through CS and TF communities, we are all concerned by this.

102. "It makes me sad, Valve started out as a small little company, that needed every sale they could get and actually cared about customer satisfaction , only to rise to power, and become another company like EA, that only care about sales, milk series till they run dry, and make some of the most dissappointing games to ever hit the market (Spore)."

103. WE need to block valva new left for dead gogogo

104. I'm annoyed that people against the boycott have only one argument claiming how we are "whiney bitches". seriously..what a bunch of brainless idiots..Open you're eyes...Valve is fucking us over....

105. http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/696431/Opening-The-Valve-The-Ga be-Newell-Interview.html

Gabe Newell Gives his insight and reasoning of the development of l4d2. Also "news" of why valve isn't announcing ep3 yet.


106. It makes me sad, Valve started out as a small little company, that needed every sale they could get and actually cared about customer satisfaction , only to rise to power, and become another company like EA, that only care about sales, milk series till they run dry, and make some of the most dissappointing games to ever hit the market (Spore).

107. Valve: Do not sell L4D2 as a separate product. I vow I will not purchase any further steam products without further support for the ORIGINAL L4D. Your losing a great customer.

108. I personally would love VALVE to reconsider L4D2, and just expand L4D, or at least make L4D2 an expansion. But Valve (like any other game developer) is turning into a money-demanding company. Valve has created a fanbase who will buy any game they release, just like Infinity Ward. I have bought every Valve game the day they came out since HL2+CSS. But I will NOT be buying L4D2 unless they have a shit load more to offer, like 5 campaigns? WTF? That's ridiculous. And who the fuck wants to fight zombies in New Orleans? That city has already been destroyed, numerous times. Sorry, but I don't think VALVE is going to give up on this, there's at least a million 12 year olds that will buy it for their Xbox 360, at this point that's all VALVE cares about.

109. And, yes I don't see many people playing L4D after release. My thinking is it should be come the competitive game :D less factors would make it logical.

110. All about match-makin and all is fun homemaster but what will happen to L4D? Did u think about that? Iam 101% sure if L4D2 were to come back its no use of makin Match-makin or watver shit they gonna update it with, as people will be playin more L4D2. So what about the Orignal Left4Dead? It will be "Left 4 Dead" as i see it will be of no use of makin small updates to L4D. In the end no one will be playin L4D. And its a pain in the ass for innocent people who bought that game 2 or 3weeks before the announcement. And after 6 months "HERE COME L4D2! what a joke..

111. Lets think about the fact that the sequel is also being used as a way to further the story and universe of L4D. 5 new campaigns, new characters and a new setting. Fresher than a recently returned from the dead corpse (ok bad analogy).

Finally, L4D is fine the way it is. Valve "promised" more but they couldn't do this like TF2, and this should be obvious. Now, I say L4D is fine, but it isn't. It should have SDK, MM 2.0 and more fixes. What it shouldn't have is everything from L4D2. Then it just wouldn't be L4D, would it?

112. too early for a sequel/ new game. better to improve L4D first by making new/more official campaigns, and finer improvements.

heck the Death Aboard Campaign 4th Chapter (http://www.l4dmaps.com/details.php?file=33) blows away any Official Maps in comparison.

they could make less money, but more die hard fans. then release L4D2 on 2010. unfortunately Valve stockholders are itching for more money the soonest regardless of recession. mfckrs!


113. But they were going to do more. It just morphed into a sequel. I never heard them say they promised anyway. They said they wanted to, because it worked for TF2. Clearly though, things change.

In a TF2 update you get a few maps. In a L4D update you would need a 5 map campaign, balanced perfectly and a separate version for each of the 3 modes. Did I mention some of the maps Valve releases are community maps? (if only we had SDK for L4D, then Valve may have been able to rework these for release. Oh well...)

In a TF2 update you get 3 new weapons (6 with the latest), most of which are sidegrades or not worth it (medic aside). They don't instantly break balance like melee weapons (an entirely new system) would in L4D, and if they do (sandman) they are fixed quickly. 3 new bosses? we don't even know what 2 of them are yet.

That's the comparisons with TF2. Weapons and maps. Now lets think about new AI director, new randomness, incendiary freakin ammo. Let's think about

114. How is it any different from anything TF2 got after release?

They've changed the way the weapons work for TF2. If they weren't going to give us more DLC than two Versus maps and a Survivor mode, they should not have promised more

115. Are you serious? They are adding melee weapons. They are adding 3 bosses. They are changing the way the Director works.

TF2 got weapons (big whoop) and a few maps per update. Arena mode is to TF2 what Survival is to L4D - not hard to implement.

If you dare think the content for L4D2 is on par with TF2 updates, then I pity your parents.

116. I'm still asking, what about the secound could they not have incorporated to the first, and what will they add to the first that wouldn't be diverse from the second

117. Konata The Spy: did your parents not love you as a child? sorry, as a child of the 80s here, I know when I'm being scammed, and L4D2 is a scam. I don't give a fuck if VALVe gives us L4D players four maps, I will not buy L4D2 for more than $20. VALVe has gone against EVERYTHING they are for.

118. i will not be buying left 4 dead 2

119. We have no problem with you buying it, as you aren't important. You can leave now.

120. I hope when I wake up in the morning we will have over 30k! I'm spreading the word!

121. no. 2,5 sold in Xbox 360, not in PC. Xbox Live has not Steam but a lot of Xbox Gamers are not going to buy this.

122. currently around 25,000 people committed to the boycott
they sold 2.5 million
congrats! we're at 1%

123. yep, the boycott worked and as you know the next UT was launched 3 years later. It's the reason why L4D2 boycott has sense

124. Epic lost a lot of money with the UT 2005 boycott. They were planning realise UT 2005 in 2005 but a lot of fans not bought the 2004 cuz it was similar to 2003 (like L4D2 is similar to L4D).

Seriously, L4D 2 is unnecesary


125. The thing Valve needs to do is just stop with their "EA" way of game selling and start doing it like Team Fortress 2, In matter of fact We need new weapons for l4d and new maps and new characters....Why not just import those assholes from l4d2 to l4d progressively not all at once, that would be so much greater....god Valve is ganna loose like 60% of their players if they continue to pull this shit.

126. I agree with -//- static. I have no problems with companies making money. And as I said before, I used to love Valve. I just want to see them get their shit together and quit being like EA.

I wasn't aware UT 2004 was boycotted. I remember they had money back coupons for purchasers of UT 2003 though.

127. But seriously, it's not about the money, it's to prevent this greedy tendencies of pumping stuff EA sports style.

128. That's the biggest boycott in game industry since UT 2004

129. We know Valve is at least very aware of this group. Their recent statements specifically mention the boycott.

130. Only time will tell . Who knows maybe valve is watching this group right now ......*looks around nervously*

131. With the secuel L4D will die

132. I would be much more accepting of Left 4 Dead 2 if Valve waited at least two years to release it.

$40 is way cheaper than a full game and a tiny bit more expensive than an expansion. I really don't see it being that cheap.

133. Then it could be like 20 .... $40 for you Americans out there . However i do agree that it is a bit to early for a sequel

134. If valve continues to release new DLC for L4D1 i will gain my faith back to them, im still not going to get L4D2

135. The game will be out in November and Valve confirmed that. What they haven't said is how much it will be, but considering they're calling it a sequel, odds are it will be full price.

136. Oh good god, Turbomonkey. Do you ever leave? What, you think that you're going to dissuade anyone's opinion?

137. Left 4 Dead 2 should be Left 2 die...

138. IM not paying full price, period

139. They do know the pun on the cover of the first game doesn't work when it's changed to the hand holding 2 fingers up for the sequel, right? If it is used in the same context as the first, it means Left 2 Dead 2, so I guess we only get 2 players per game.

140. Valve said they spent $10 million on marketing campaign for L4D and intend to spent evem more on L4D2. Ever felt like paying for their ads?

141. I think it's time we found the pro-Left 4 Dead group and hassle them.

142. when's the next troll coming in...im hungry :P

143. I'll be happy if I can still play as the original 4... really the only new survivor I have even a mere inkling of interest in is the painter...

remember only and inkling.

144. I just like playing the game with different people, different personalities, especially if everyone has a mic. I still find the gameplay enjoyable in every mode. I haven't gotten tired of it.

145. As I stated a long-ass time ago; Everquest 2 installed everything to the PC and its expansions did the same thing, so the expansions count as DLC. I've had EQ2 expansions that were nearly 7GBs which is way bigger than Left 4 Dead alone. How can the DLC be too big and mess up systems then?

146. Has anyone noticed the new survivors are.. lacking?

147. Actually i dont even care about the price. Iam thinkin about L4D's Future! What will happen to Louis, Zoey, Francis and Bill! Gonna miss them.

This is how it needs to be handled.

Xbox 360 - Release a full sequel at a full price, because that's just how it is on consoles. They can blame Microsoft if they want to.

PC - Update all copies of L4D when L4D2 comes out, so to include new weapons, updated AI and new special infected. But charge $25 for the 4 new survivors, 5 new campaigns, new vs and survial maps. For anyone new buying L4D, L4D2 will be the only option and sell for $50 and include all 9 campaigns. This way even if someone just has L4D and their friend buys L4D2, they can at least still play the original 4 maps together.

Also give free updates for the new game. Lots of them.

This way Valve still gets paid, the community is kept together and is given enough free content to fulfill Valves promise and everyone will be happy


148. actually i prefer if valve would make somethin ut of L4D rather than L4d2. Wat the hell the first is not even complete yet. Valve dont keep promises do they? now they are sayin the patch will be too big for L4D so they had to make L4d2. Bullshit i say! If they can make L4D2, why can't they make L4D2 into a DLC for L4D. What fkin BULL.. Shit..

149. Aw! Now he's gone. Ah well, now it's time to wait for the next troll to come in. Remember guys, every troll's comments and the replies add to the probability that Google will link to us!

150. valve made 100 million on the first left 4 dead so a 1 million loss isn't a great deal for them but the goal isn't to damage valves sales figure that would accomplish nothing the point is to provide to valve critisicm to allow them to please their customers

151. want proof...open ur internet browser...type www.google.com....on the search field search wtf ur asking for, dumbasss

152. BTW, I couldn't give a rat's ass about the Xbox360 crowd. Valve can release it as a whole new game, I hate consoles. Serves them right for getting one, they suck.

153. @ Sonan

Yea, plus, Valve's lack of "we're going to weekly update the game" makes it, how do I say, reptitive. Sonan is right Knightmare, after you've killed zombies and camped in the same spots so many times, it loses its novelty.


154. Oh, and about the company's as people have stated Activision and Blizzard are perfect example. Both used to make quality games, but now they are pumping out crap like WOW and GH. Both of those "games" are now the sole projects of both company's and only because they make money. In reality, those games are both crap. Grinding endlessly and mimicing someone playing a guitar are both shallow and stupid ways to entertain ones self. They can do whatever they want now because there are fanboys ready to lick up and pay full price (GH) or monthly (WOW) for ever little bit of shit expansion or "new" game they are making.

155. Normally I would think Microsoft would be involved in something as stupid as this to make more sales for their system, but since the first Left 4 Dead wasn't even finished at release, I blame Valve.

What more proof do you need? Everyone and their mother posts Gabe's comments about how Left 4 Dead would get treated like TF2. I'm tired of seeing it so if you want the proof go Google it.

The issue is that they haven't delivered like they did with TF2. You didn't see a TF3 in 2008, did you?

156. and who taught u math dude... its 60$ / game * 25000 copies = 1.5 MIL u idiot!!!

157. You , the developers know there are enough stupid faggots fanboys around , ussualy 12 = 14 years old and playing Xbox - wich will buy every shit they will make no matter how bad or expensive it is.

158. It's still a big loss you stupid fuck

159. What? What the hell kind of math did you do? 25,000 (rounded) people refusing to buy a $60 game. That comes out to $1,500,000. What company wants to lose that much?

Where the hell did "100 times each" come from?!

160. and monkey...try to defend urself with some good arguments...otherwise ur just a waste of time to urself!!!

161. Shut the fuck up at L4D2... honestly man, just can it. You are the reason we have vigilante developers doing whatever the fuck they want and breaking their promises to quality, cause idiots like you are sucking their cocks so even if they release something bad you'll be there to suck it up like it's amazing.

162. How is it fashionable to hate Valve? They were one of the best companies until they pulled this shit with the first game. I didn't have a single complaint with them until I bought the unfinished Left 4 Dead.

163. @ Shut the fuck up about LFD2

You are only embarrassing yourself

164. Nah, Activision is getting there with their plans on releasing a new Guitar Hero every time someone on the development team farts, but it's still nowhere as bad as EA. Remember, EA has been releasing the same sports games for nearly 20 years now.

165. How do you love Valve ? With their dick in your mouth or in your ass ?

166. again at the monkey dude... u still dont get it...if we dont buy the game...valve looses 1.25 mil $... now tell me how would they do bussines with -1.25 mil $... o wait ... U GONNA give them the money... i forgot lol...but wait, all i see is like 3, 4 or 5 of u here what declare to buy the game: SIMPLE MATH MONKEY: 1.25 MIL >>>>> 150$...u moron...

167. Your blind love of Valve is what is making them realize they can do whatever they want. It's no wonder they're going the EA Games route.

Also, I kind of like him here. Every time he talks in defense or offense, the post count goes higher.

168. @ Shut the fuck up about LFD2

more cooler than someone who goes into a boycott group just to start a fight

GET A LIFE and GROW UP

169. If you don't get the point of the boycott and you defend your logic with stupid answers why not fucking leave

170. No, I don't. We all could. Also, don't you have "a life" to go to or something?

Why do you think Midway went under? Nobody bought their games because they didn't like them.

171. its probably cause the xbox360 would not be able to handle a "L4D2" patch

172. If Valve delivered a finished game for 60 bucks our protest would feel stupid. But as long as they delivered an unfinished beta packed with promises of future updates (wich never came) is just a scam for customers.

173. I watched the YouTube videos for L4D2, and I see no difference in game play as the articles that I read. Now maybe when these videos are rough draft, I don't know. I thought in order to stop the horde, the survivors had to move through an area of the map. The better the survivors, the longer and harder the map gets. Now, can't they incorporate this into a patch for the original L4D? Maybe they can make a series of patches for all the code changes that would be invovled. But, all in all, the game engine still looks exactly the same to me.

174. no what is pissing people off is they spent like 8 months making a new l4d game and they released like 4 maps and a survival mode.. wtf is that . its basically like they released it to the community and said we'll be spending our resources making sure we can plenty of updates out to you and then they decide oh i'm bored with this one lets make a new one. and then they release one small DLC just to keep people from entirely losing interest in the game til they roll another one out.

175. Lets have a intelligent discussion .
about "Shut the fuck up about LFD2 "

1 You be the one who should shut the fuck up

2 Fuck yourself with a knife


176. it may or may not work, but our opinion will be heard... and hopefully influence valve

177. I love valve, but L4D2 is a slap in the face to loyal customers. All we can do now is loudly voice our rejection!

178. l4d was started by turtle rock and most of the good aspects of that game belong to turtle rocks amazing developer team .valve just gave them more resources to polish and refine it. the core gameplay and fun of l4d is a product of turtle rock studios

179. Why are Pro-L4D2 people joining the boycott and then telling ppl to STFU?!?

180. We are in 2012. Valve just shiped LEft 4 Dead 5 who will replace LFD 4. (and the teams start working at LFD6 who must be shiped in 5 months: can be done cause they will use the same engine as LFD 1 , 2 ,3 ,4 and 5)

We got new weapons : the pan was replaced with a pot. The knife with a scissor , the AKM soviet version with a AKM czech version. They also retextured the axe and the chainsaw wich is now yellow instead of red.

We got 4 new survivors : a nigger from Somalia (with huge abdomen ), a dutch gay wearing gold necklaces , a chineese cook and a hungarian prostitute with big tits.

We also got 5 new improved songs ( including Macarena ,Cocojambo and PokerFace ).

The new campains (ofcourse incompatible with all the old games) will take place in Rio de Janeiro on the beaches. , so we can admire the sun and the ocean.

All will cost just 60 bucks .
One idiot will come on the boycott group and will post : " omg faggots , is ONLY 60 bucks. You should be happy "


181. Gavan , feeling good sucking Valve dick ?

182. the goal of the boycott is to make a point even if you don't accomplish anything it still all comes down to making the point to valve that they need to deliver on their promises. also anyone who's out there supporting vavle as in errant gods i'd like to direct you to their leader gabe newell. not exactly a skinny one is he.

183. Im with you man. Everyone gotta shut the fuck up with this bullshit. If you guys were true fans of VALVe, you guys would support them no matter what so when November comes, I hope you feel like assholes while VALVe is saying "hmm L4D was a hit we thought we did a good job with L4D2" but because of you douche bags you guys woulnt buy it when it comes out? Thats complete bullshit so shut the fuck up and have fun with L4D2 when it comes out

184. I think L4D2 should be anexpansion pack. And in the expansion pack, make a patch for the updated AI director. I cannot see why this cannot be done. With the patch, the gameplay will be improved , this way the updated director will take over the original L4D gameplay. But it will only be possible with the expansion pack and patch. How is Valve keep expanding HL2 with Episodes without the system crashing?

185. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-jmYz1PzV8 lol it has the exact same achievments as l4d1

186. Now he is going to play the "go outside" card and his dumbass is here complaining about us..

187. LoL @ the moron who said "Dont buy it.."
I guess he is too dumb to realize what boycott means..

188. BOYCOTT means: "DONT BUY"

189. " Don't buy it if you don't want it "

congratulation for our idiot who found out in the end what BOYCOTT mean.


190. Not buying it if you don't want it is the definition of a boycott, genius.

191. Is hard to speak with Valve dick in your mouth ?

192. id you don't want to hear about a boycott group then get out of the comment section....dumbass

193. I wondered why it took so many months to push out the other two versus maps, and also why they ended up being arguably worse than just using their co-op counterparts to play versus on. I guess the answer is they were too busy making L4D 2.

194. Turbomonkey, are you stupid or something?

195. monkey...ur not the first one to say something like that...lol..nor will u bee the last...but ur just 1 talking to 25K angry ppl...so i guess we geeks are not gonna listen to u monkey!!!

196. I hate the fact that L4D2 looks like some fan made reskin of L4D1, and it still costs $50. They just want to trick us into buying the same game twice.

197. Vex stop camparing our group with the size of the group who bought LFD.
Compare our group with the size of the other groups on Steam . Else your judgement is soooo failed.


198. What I don't understand is whenever I bring this up people ask what am I complaining about? I got my 50 bucks out of it. The fact is I bought L4D not because I thought there was enough content on the disc, there wasn't, but because that content would be expanded on. No other game company could ask me to make an investment now on a future game other then valve, and I guess no company can now.

199. Guys and gals! Please do not give up the fight! If we don't tell them [Valve] off now, who knows what the future holds for all of us!

200. i hate the fact that left 4 dead 2 looks like team fortress 2 with zombies
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